What’s great about this, and Stephen Fry is brilliant, is not that he’s absolving Musk, or that he’s criticizing Tesla, but that it is an argument likely leading to Elon Musk protesting,
‘No, my cars are good enough that I can be a Nazi!’
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Exactly this. My grandmother lived under the Nazis and she said they were fucking idiots. Exactly the same type of incompetent blowhards. The whole hyper scientific ubermensch BS in the cultural zeitgeist is so frustrating. I blame all the WWII video games and movies that played up the myth to have more interesting villains than the sleazy shit stains that they actually were.
The strength of the Germans was that I.) they had a really good industrial base, and ii.) the traditions within the army meant they had extremely well trained soldiers. Both of these predate nazi-rule. For instance, Germans also arguably had the best (equipped) army in WW1.
Early Nazis also galvanized a young working force with actual socialist policies that guaranteed them good jobs and housing (before Hitler’s multiple violent party purges, scrapping most of it for a fascist-capitalist junta)
Not entirely. You should read the scathing after action reports from Wehrmacht generals who lead the Polish campaign. Basically, they wanted to postpone all offensive operation for at least 3 years because of the high armor losses and correct the deficiencies. The fucktard, Hitler, sent his best generals to desk jobs and replaced them with yes people to continue the war. This is what Bush did during the build up against Iraq and Afghanistan and exactly what Orange Nero wants to do too.
they had extremely
well trained soldiersbrainwashed teenage murderers.Two things can be true at the same time. German soldiers were incredibly cruel in non-combat situations, and at the same time highly competent in combat.
My Oma survived WWII and the bastard Nazis. Opa , was a Wehrmacht Landser, survived the Eastern Front, including Stalingrad, and was later KIA at Monte Cassino. He warned Oma, while on leave from the Eastern Front, that we are going to lose war and you better head west when the Russians enter Germany. She was 3-days ahead of them, just missed the Dresden bombings and somehow survived the Battle of Berlin. Now the USA has the same incompetent blowhards running the USA straight into the ground. She warned me it could happen anywhere and she was 100% correct.
Hitler was a drug addict and the trains didn’t run on time.
German trains still don’t run on time. Can’t blame that one on the Nazis, that’s just a German thing.
At least you didn’t rip up your railways. We barely even have trains here in the US.
This is why the left can’t have nice things.
Like this isn’t the point here. You don’t need to be pointing out this stuff. Just dog pile
Minor clarifications aren’t the end of the world. The left is fine. Stop being sensitive
A small country took on the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD (TWICE) and very nearly won. The second time with a lunatic at the helm.
What does it take to impress you? To what would you assign their disturbing success?
Germany didn’t really have much wealth after WW1 due to the restrictions placed on them from the western powers.
Most of the reason the Nazi party was popular early on was them championing a number of socialist policies designed to bring the country out an economic morass.
This is a really good book on the subject (and part of a really good trilogy of books about understanding Nazi Germany): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/319473.The_Coming_of_the_Third_Reich
You do realize Germany lost 48% of it’s industrial territory in the treaty of Versailles, right?
and very nearly won.
What the actual fuck are you talking about?
Nazis took on world in one war, and lost.
“WE ARE THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! THE PUREST OF THE PURE! STRONGEST OF THE STRONG!”
[Fights one (1) war]
“Guess we’ll shoot ourselves in a bunker and lose in a big lopsided defeat.”
At no point did they “nearly win” against the world. In World War 1 they made desperate attempts to break out of trench warfare because the blockade was obliterating their wartime economy. In World War 2 they were cooked the second they invaded the USSR and the USA landed in the UK. Those were unwinnable areas for them. Even if they eventually managed to wear down the British, the Americans were right behind them manufacturing 100 tanks a day and 15 Aircraft Carriers in 1943 alone. Which means all of those tanks are getting to the European theater.
And once the USSR got it’s production under way the Germans were on the defensive all the way back to Berlin.
What is this, the Übermensch Expanded Universe? Maybe actually learn history.
To what would you assign their disturbing success?
I have to ask: What success? They did typical fascist bullshit: They had an economy so bad they had to invade new countries just to loot them to pay for their horrific economy. They picked fight after fight of the smallest kids in the neighbourhood they could find until they met those kids big brothers and sisters. They required fucking slave labour to try to meet their wartime goals because they grossly underestimated just about every single facet of running a country. They privatized state-owned industries, crippling longterm wealth for their people, they instituted tariffs (sound familiar?). Pay remained as bad as they it had been in the depression because while their wages were raised, they were forced to constantly work overtime for no additional pay. Their military was the majority of their economic spending, and they used deficit spending because they were going to literally plunder the countries around them to pay for it. Sound like solid long-term planning? They killed or jailed anyone in the trade unions, and due to their insane tariffs and you know, generally being the worst people in history, lacked incoming trade so things like poultry or clothing was in short supply for the average person.
Then it took thirty five days for the Nazi German army, along with the Serbian and Soviet armies, to conquer Poland. For every success in the early war they had embarrassing fumbles. They lost entirely because of how fascists work: they need to invade more countries to pay for their insane military spending, make bigger and bigger enemies, then get beat by those enemies, then later people claim they ‘could have if…’
Yeah, they could have done just fine if they hadn’t been fascist. All of their failings fall to being fascist.
And the first world war, are you kidding me? Are you seriously suggesting their insistence on investing in overseas colonies while fighting against the British was a brilliant plan? In both wars they were led by colossal morons who constantly underestimated their opponents, while in the second world war in particular having the worst spy agency of any nation. Their insistence on torturing, raping, and murdering everyone they came into contact with meant they just got the answers they wanted to hear, instead of the actual truth, and were constantly on the back foot. Their evil, cruel, and twisted nature was their own downfall; the insistence of their superiority, as you are doing now, is the very reason they failed.
Not even close dumb fuck and fucking Nazis betrayed the German people with their bullshit.
What point are you trying to make here @Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com?
I was arguing that there was a terrible war, and the enemy was dangerous and capable. Many of our and other country’s soldiers died to destroy them, and it wasn’t easy.
They weren’t “Colonel Klink” from “Hogan’s Heroes”, they were efficient at killing, rounding up and killing millions while fighting on a number of fronts.
My grandfather fought in World war I, and my uncles fought in World war II. From what I heard the Germans were not incompetent bumbling idiots. They were a very competent and difficult enemy.
I don’t know what history everybody’s been reading, but there sure as heck are some major changes to history interpretation that have taken place in the last 40-50 years. Probably peer-to-peer instruction, rather than accounts from those who endured it
Ok fair enough, I accept the explanation you provided. Folks are taking issue with the following comment in particular.
What does it take to impress you? To what would you assign their disturbing success?
In isolation, this sounds a little too close to admiration for the Nazis, which is why we got some reports about it. It seems to me it’s just unfortunate phrasing, because together with the explanation you just provided, it sounds like a reasonable take for you not to want to paint them like some hapless foe that was easily defeated, because that discounts the difficulties faced by those who fought the bastards.
I wanted to clarify, but there were so many comments coming in, I didn’t see how I could do it effectively. And not seem like I was what some people thought I was
I know, it’s difficult when people pile on with bad faith takes. Anyway don’t worry, I think it’s clear what you meant now.
Headlines are being headlines, I get it, but Fry was repeating a joke:
“I heard a very good joke yesterday,” the QI host, 67, told Stig Abell on Times Radio on Thursday.
“Someone said, ‘Musk is not a Nazi… Nazis made really good cars,’” he went on, before bursting out laughing.
Right, and here’s the clip.
Still a Nazi.
Just America shrinkflated Nazism so the intelligence had to go. Still 100% of the hate and malice America loves to eat though.
Yes. He’s still a Nazi. You’re not getting the point.
Fry is trying to provoke Musk into saying, “yes, they’re good enough,” turning it an admission that he is indeed a Nazi.
Let’s repeat it again kids. Elon Musk is a piece of shit
So is Stephen Fry.
Why? What did fry do?
He said sexual abuse victims should grow up and stop feeling sorry for themselves.
He jumped on the "I’m a Jew " bandwagon, in order to deflect criticism of Israel’s actions in Gaza. This is after presenting as atheist for all of his public life.
Anti trans JK Rowling supporter.
Goddammit. Why is no celebrity available to like anymore? I guess it’s true, we should not idolize anyone. Everyone is a piece of shit in some way or another, and to some level.
Except Keanu Reeves. He’s literally Jesus Christ. ❤️🔥😭
I don’t have full context, but he seems to be transphobic, or possibly trans exclusionary may be more accurate.
https://old.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1hi3opi/another_celeb_dissapointment_stephen_fry/
To put the video in short: Essentially gets asked if he still supports Stonewall even though they support trans kids and speak out against TERFs (worded much differently) and he says no I don’t support them any more, calling it nonsensical, shameful, and sad.
Thanks for the added context. That’s what I guessed based on comments, but wasn’t certain.
He probably said something reasonable that they disagreed with 😄
Wrong, but you do you.
The cybertruck is exactly the sort of thing Nazis would come up with. It’s the King Tiger of trucks - impressive specs and appeals to insecure men, but way the fuck too big and designed for unrealistic situations instead of practical reality.
I think RAMs or similar win in that category by being as actively harmful as possible. And having the huge blindspot where you run over kids without noticing.
Before King Tiger and Tiger they had a few very good tanks.
Just when T-34 (which were clearly superior to German tanks once some bugs were ironed out, different class even) production went out of control, Hitler started making more decisions involved in what kind of machines is going to be developed and built.
Not apologizing and then immediately giving a speech to AfD about not being ashamed of “cultural purity” beg to differ. Either way, him being an actual Nazi is irrelevant. There are 2 options:
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He is an actual Nazi and believes in the ideology, which makes him a fucking Nazi. It should be noted that his grandfather was an extremely anti-semitic politician who moved to South Africa because he admired Apartheid…
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He did it as a troll. In which case, at a POTUS inauguration he decided to behave like a teenage boy as the richest man in the world and make light of something that saw 6 million Jews slaughtered and remains as a threat to the security of Jews around the world to this day. Which makes him a colossal piece of shit.
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I’d imagine Jeremy Clarkson might have said this on old top gear before he outed himself as a massive asshole.
I think James May got there quicker. The first episode of his Cars Of The People miniseries explores (in part) the driving idea behind the Beetle and its origin, including its proceeds funding the Nazi war machine.
What did he do to out himself, out of curiosity?
He punched a guy in 2015 over available food options, which got him fired from BBC. His popularity didn’t take that much of a hit from this incident despite him clearly being in the wrong (Hammond and May both left BBC with him and they started a new show The Grand Tour, which wasn’t as popular as Top Gear, but was still popular.
Then, in 2022, he wrote an opinion piece for the Sun about how much he hates Megan Merkle and included a bit where he said she should be paraded naked through the town. Amazon decided to not start any new projects with him after this, though they continued with the plans to wind down The Grand Tour which had already been established.
He’s got a farming show now, so he wasn’t cancelled over this, despite burning some bridges.
Well that’s a pretty disgusting thing to say about someone. I don’t know what Merkle did to – in his view – deserve such comments, but I can’t imagine the comments were warranted.
I haven’t read the piece but apparently he didn’t even go into the why.
What a douche canoe.
Nobody really remembers, it was so long ago.
Then all’s well, I guess. Just like Hitler. Who was he? ANYWAY let’s get some froghurt…
Elon is the new Henry Ford. But I’m afraid we have no modern day Roosevelts to smack him down.
Henry Ford actually had some good ideas himself. Elon steals all his ideas.
Ohhhh so Edison?
The company being named Tesla seems pretty Edison.
More Bob Page, if you’ve played Deus Ex.
Nah, I’m sure Cybertruck was the example of him messing around in a 3d modeling software and then saying to Tesla engineers “make a car out of this”. There’s no other excuse for the lack of thought in its outer design.
lemmy users: “That’s no excuse!”
I would describe Elon Musk as an autistic adult whose weird behavior patterns and way too much money are dangerous in a system that gives money way too much power.
edit: just to be clear to the angry arrow smashers, I’m not offering excuses, rationalizations or support for Elon Musk, just a purely clinical view of his behavior, and why it’s so dangerous that our system gives so much power to money. Without the influence his billions give him he would be just another annoying weird guy. Some people would probably even feel some sympathy for him if it didn’t carry the risk of being called Evil.
I would describe the wealthiest person in the world, Elon Musk, as the oligarchic son of an apartheid mining oligarch. His personality “quirks” are an irrelevant distraction that excuse & explain nothing.
His potential neurodivergence does not excuse the evil. The majority of autistic people comprehend morality.
Yeah I guess we’re not allowed to talk about this guy clinically at all. Has to be about good vs evil.
You want to argue that armchair psychology is more important in this situation than condemning doing a Nazi salute?
Armchair psychology and armchair political rants are both armchair activities., so neither is more important, and they can both happen at the same time.
It’s just interesting that all statements about <bad guy du jour> are considered support if they aren’t condemnation. If you said Bill Cosby used to do funny standup for example, you would be flooded with hate because the only acceptable reason to mention Cosby is condemn him for being horrible. But understanding the psychology of horrible people is actually important. Think how it would be if you got a rectal disease and it turned out there was no cure because assholes are gross so nobody studies them and anybody who mentions them except to rant about how disgusting they are gets pounded with douchevotes and called a pervert. Objective talk about aspects of sociopaths should be okay. Don’t be the Christian who clutches their rosary every time somebody says “Satan”.
Autism =/= fascism or even being an insensitive moron. Autistic people are often highly sensitive to such topics.
You’re painting autistic people in a bad light. There is nothing about autism that excuses such behavior.
There’s also no reason to take anything I said as an “excuse”.
