“Which side are you on?”
The “two party” system is on the same side.
The republicans just funded a gestapo force which is rounding up brown people (some of them citizens) to take them to concentration camps where some and probably soon all of them are going to start dying.
Recently an 82 year old legal permanent resident originally from Chile where he fled the horror story we kick started decades ago was nabbed whilst replacing his lost green card and is now on deaths door in Gautama where we left him to die on the street whilst lying to his family so they couldn’t help him.
Please tell me this is the same as life under Obama.
The republicans just funded a gestapo force
The Democrats also funded that gestapo force, of course.
https://legalunitedstates.com/which-senators-voted-for-the-big-beautiful-bill/
All Democrats and three Republicans—Thom Tillis (NC), Rand Paul (KY), and Susan Collins (ME)—voted against the bill.
Same story in the house. Only republicans are fully and totally responsible for this.
How can you be so stupid as to think ICE was formed by the BBB? Do you not get embarrassed being so proudly ignorant?
ICE wasn’t formed by the BBB but under Trump it has fundamentally altered its character and method of operating in a way that will inevitably destroy the lives of millions and probably kill many of them and the BBB expand its funding which was 6B in the last year before Trump V1 to 200B under Trump v2.
So the Democrats did fund the gastapo force
fundamentally altered its character
Great to see Democrats have shifted so far right that they’re defending pre-2025 ICE.
Camps holding immigrants also existed under Obama 👍
To hold people who actually ought to be deported whilst giving them the benefit of legal counsel and ultimately returning them to the actual countries they came from and never for political reprisals.
Oh, so there were no children in cages under Obama, now? No deportations of asylum seekers?
This kind of delusional nonsense is why nobody can stand liberals. Y’all think your carefully cultivated ignorance means things just didn’t happen even if there’s ample proof for them.
add gay vs god to the outsides
maybe something on immigration and racism
The fact that there are so many dislikes proves how propagandized the average American is. “How dare you call both sides the same” Well, they ojectively are pretty much the same with few exceptions.
Especially for non-Usian people, doubly especially for those on the working end of US “diplomacy” - bombs, coups and sanctions come regardless of which US administration, there is literally no difference whatsoever.
“Everyone who is an adult who realizes there is no unicorn party is completely propagandized. I am le very smart.”
Yep, you’re a reddit refugee alright.
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One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet. The other side brings a knife to the gun fight.
They’re not even remotely the same. 40 years ago that may have been closer to true.
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet
The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
oh god i agree with cowbee wholeheartedly in a thread of discourse…
oh god oh fuck oh shit i can feel it happening… is it warm in here?
Я чувствую, как марксизм-ленинизм просачивается в мой мозг!!! make it stop….
Теперь я чувствую себя белым и пушистым… как коммунистический медведь.
—-
anyway joking aside appreciate lemmy collectively telling neolibs to shut the fuck up bc while plenty of things .ml says piss me off, they don’t piss me off nearly as much as seeing americans who haven’t ripped the bandaid off yet.
Hey, seems like a good enough reason to start looking into Marxist-Leninist theory as any! 😉
Democrats seek to regulate said capital. The Overton window is too far right to have much effect.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy. Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The “Overton Window” has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
Most right wing policies done by Democrats are necessary because of the electoral college. There is resistance from the right, and Democrats working within the unfair rules need to appease these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair. It’s not usually because they want to appease billionaires. But definitely there is corruption on both sides. Just 10x as much on the right.
these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair.
Unless that compromise is “don’t commit genocide”, then they’ll happily abaondon the swing-state voters.
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How did you quantity that 10x times?
My best naïve estimate puts Democrats at 1.44-1.98x as corrupt.
😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That’s the exact opposite of the Democrat’s political ideology. I should say 1000x. I’ll call it “orders of magnitude” instead.
So where did you get 1.98?
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet.
And the other side commits genocide. It also overthrows other people’s democracy, but you don’t consider foreigners human.
https://www.inss.org.il/publication/democrats/
Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That’s not what I would call “committing genocide”. What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not. That’s not supporting genocide. We’re fighting, but losing.
Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That’s not what I would call “committing genocide”.
Committing genocide is committing genocide. What the fuck is wrong with you?
What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not.
Then you had your eyes closed for all of 2024
That’s not supporting genocide. We’re fighting, but losing.
Genocide denier
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Ok, I’ll return your argument strategy exactly as you stated it: [Some thing that in no way resembles anything I said]
You people really cannot behave in good faith, can you?
If not, you are a genocide denier and had your eyes closed for all of 2025. What the fuck is wrong with you? You shameful asshole. People are dying and you don’t even give a fuck. You have nothing more to say that I care about until you personally feed an affected person. Hypocrite."
Incoherent. But I guess I shouldn’t expect more from a genocide apologist fuck like you.
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My parents are lifelong Democrats. When I ask them questions about any specific policy, they are vehemently against if it involves raising taxes even slightly. Voting Democrat makes them feel better about themselves. They always ask me to fill their ballots in, I have to refuse and lecture them every time. They love CNN.
k?
Simple English: My parents vote Democrat but don’t support Democrat policies. They are staunch Libertarians who think voting Democrat makes them look good to their children. They also don’t like to vote and want their children to decide for them, which is antidemocratic. They watch news outlets that spew disinformation. They’re not much different from most Republicans. I suspect many other Americans are the same.
I think Americans can perceive how fucked up and corrupt their government is but they lack any theoretical analysis to determine the nature of it. So all they have is a general perception that the government doesn’t work for them and that creates an inherent distrust of any government program, no matter what it does.
So an American might believe that universal healthcare is a good policy, but they also believe that in practice if such a policy were enacted it would mean that money being siphoned off by the ultra rich, with nothing fundamentally changing. They would be paying the taxes of a universal healthcare state, but the actual system would continue as-is, and they would still need to pay ridiculous prices. Thus getting double-dicked for no benefit.
The thing is this is probable. Section 8 is a massive subsidy to landlords. The ACA is a massive subsidy to insurance companies. But if you asked Americans why this keeps happening they would just spout some nonsense about R’s and D’s, or some particular politician, or whatever.
This cynicism spans both “blue” and “red” America. I think it’s the heart of the rot in our society. It’s not really a society at all in the sense that people have lost the belief that we, collectively, can work together to achieve more than what’s possible working alone. When that breaks the only motive people still believe in is the extractive motive of corporations. They believe that only the rich can make things happen, and thus are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy by electing venal politicians who believe the same.
Obviously I’m generalizing here, but just an undercurrent I’ve observed. It’s not coherent, but it is consistent across the “spectrum” of American politics. This ultra wealthy magnify this narrative since it suits them.
And that stuff about abortion shouldn’t even be there after they didn’t do anything for it.
the rights were appealed under genocide Joe
Don’t remember the last time the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse and deporting them to war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
This reeks of fucking shitpost right-wing propaganda.
Edit: here come all the “but the US/CIA did all this fucked up stuff to other countries under Dems, too!”
JFC, the current “president” who is GOP literally yells about wanting to deport/arrest political opponents, censor TV personalities (e.g. Colbert, Fallon, etc), openly calls to suppress political opposition in voting, openly supports ignoring the courts when they interfere with his blatantly unconstitutional actions, etc etc .
Yes, the Dems aren’t fucking innocent, but to pretend they’re the same as a party that’s openly trying to “take back the Nazi word” is fucking insane.
Off the top off my head the national guard during the george floyd protest that got called in by tim walz. Even trump was “impressed”
Yes, because those circumstances were completely the same as what’s going on now.
And that makes it acceptable?
People had literally burned down police stations and mass looting was occurring. Their police force was completely overrun. Don’t act like it was remotely the same thing.
I have several friends in Minneapolis that are very progressive. There were tons of people who were legit scared during periods of that for numerous reasons. It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
It wasn’t “acceptable,” but what the fuck else do you do when law and order begins to completely breakdown?
if it isn’t acceptable it isn’t acceptable period. “this was the only way” literally means that you think it was acceptable.
I put it in quotes because I wasn’t meaning it to be so exact.
But whatever, I’m done arguing with enlightened centrists.
So you do think the kidnapping off the streets into unmarked vans by the military was somewhat acceptable when the democrats called for it? At least have the gut to come out and say it
The problem is that both parties are right wings, only one somewhat more extreme. Both defends the rights of big corporations, billonairs and less or nothing those of the rest of the people. Public services, labor rights and even basic rights, like health and education are a bad joke in the US and only available if you have money. Now with Trump it goes even worse.
the Democrats had military storming our streets and black bagging US residents en masse
The Posse Comitatus Act is what generally prevents military from “black bagging US residents” and leaves that job to police.
Texas was the first state to allow for the national guard to assist in immigration efforts back in 2021. Democrats did nothing to stop, delay or prevent the expansion of those powers which were further pushed and nationalized in 2025.
The other loophole is invoking the insurrection act. While Biden did not involve it it was repeatedly threatened during the Gaza war protests, however the protests never got too riotous for the Dems to risk damaging their image and the local police were perfectly capable of documenting and black bagging people for it.
The cases of Kahlil and Mahdawi where Trump attended to deport individuals participating in those protests was made possible by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. That specific bill was introduced by the Democrats, passed the Democratic majority House and Senate, Vetoed by Democratic president Truman before being overridden by the house/Senate.
You are correct that they are “not the same”, but stating that the shield of your enemy is your friend, just because it isn’t a sword is fucking insane.
They’re not the same. The Dems stand back and shake their fist/wring their hands when the Repubs have power and run roughshod over them. Then when the Dems have power they allow their efforts to be thwarted by the Repubs and gesture helplessly when in fact they could just push things through themselves.
Also the DNC is a malfunctioning toilet that costs elections, implying that they think it’s better to have a pro-establishment Repub in power than a Dem maverick.
war zones like South Sudan or Libya despite those people having zero ties to those countries.
Damn I wonder why Libya is like that!
You absolute ghouls literally don’t see foreigners as human
I dont think there is a lib alive who remembers the dems role in the destruction of Libya other than those directly involved in it.
True, most of them don’t remember as far back as last year
since the end of ww2 the two major coup d’états in brazil happened with direct support of the department of state and the cia under dem administration (johnson was in power in 64 and obama, with hillary clinton in charge of the department of state, in 2016). we’ve got a story or two to tell about them. if the regular lib doesn’t care about that, then the most natural thing for us is to consider both parties equally harmful and don’t give a damn over internal issues of the us and a.
Mostly because of Qaddafi.
You need to read more.
good to know it’s a-okay to destroy entire countries over 1 guy. Bonus points if brown, amirite?
🙄
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Everything except complete submission to the US State department reeks of Russian propaganda to .worlders
Democrats
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Retain marriage rights for gay couples.
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Expand legality of recreational drugs.
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Free food for schoolchildren.
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Tax credits for families with children.
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Subsidized for free childcare.
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Expand electric car charging nationally.
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Subsidize sustainable fuel sources.
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Fact based education standards.
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Stop racism in policing.
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Expanded healthcare subsidies.
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Preserve democracy.
Republicans
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Being gay or trans should be illegal.
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White supremacy is great!
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Christianity as national religion.
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Privatize the post office and weather service.
*Eliminate the EPA, Department of Education.
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Defund IRS.
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Disenfranchise nonwhites and women.
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Antivax agenda.
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Expand fossil fuel use.
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Eliminate worker safety laws.
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Eliminate collective bargaining and union rights.
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Defunding science research.
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Deregulate crypto.
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No regulations on AI.
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No recognition of child’s educational or bodily autonomy rights.
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Eliminate hate crime laws except for straight white men.
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End democracy, install fascist dictatorship.
But yeah, they are totally the same, right guys? RIGHT!?!
Fact based education standards.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
Stop racism in policing
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
Expanded healthcare subsidies
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
Preserve democracy
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy. A democracy enacts the will of the people, democrats don’t even have a democratic primary for their own party.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
That’s a right thing, not a left thing.
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
A lot of left leaning places pushed consent decrees, for example:
https://www.chicagopolice.org/community-policing-group/consent-decree/
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
The list time Democrats had a filibuster-proof trifecta it was for about 2 months and they passed Obamacare. Since then Republicans have nullified about 40% of it.
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy.
Except by definition it is a democracy. Like it or not, most people vote for the status quo.
Well, Democrats are the less evil choice, but all this is peanuts compared to EU social standard, I see here in Spain often US tourists which thinks they are in the future, IN SPAIN, with the rights, services and the freedom people has. Even with the US Democrates, it’s compared like the EU fifty years ago.
The EU and the Democrats are both supporting the modern holocaust, neither of them are in a position to talk about “social standards.”
Don’t confuse the statement with the capability to realize it. In the same moment when Netanyahu travel to the EU, in the same moment he will get arrested, but the EU can’t invade Israel to capture him, less without the support from the US. But the change is on the way.
In the same moment when Netanyahu travel to the EU, in the same moment he will get arrested
No. Please don’t make claims about things you don’t know about. It makes it sound like you’re lying deliberately.
But the change is on the way.
Maybe in your imaginary dream land that I assume you were referring to with your comment about the EU arresting Netanyahu, not in the real world though. Please try and remember we are talking about the real world.
Certainly not all EU members will arrest him, but the most will. The ICC statement is clear, the problem for some countries is the USA and beeing a NATO member (sadly) at the same time Israel is supported by the USA. This is because some countries are still hesitant, not for other reasons. The real world is this, and because more and more countries want to turn the EU sovereign respect the US. Trumps BBB and Tariffs for the EU, probably will accelerate this process in August 1, in the manner of selfdefense.
The International Criminal Court’s arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu remain valid and binding on all EU member states after judges rejected Israel’s appeal to withdraw them on July 16, 2025[1][2].
EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell emphasized that implementing the warrants “is not optional” for EU states[3]. However, European countries are divided on enforcement:
Countries confirming they would arrest Netanyahu:
- Netherlands: “If he comes to Dutch soil, he will be arrested,” said Foreign Minister Caspar Veldkamp[4]
- Ireland: Prime Minister Simon Harris stated Netanyahu would “absolutely” be arrested[5]
- Spain: The Foreign Ministry confirmed Spain “will comply with its commitments”[5:1]
- Belgium: Initially said it would arrest Netanyahu but later Premier Bart De Wever stated “practical considerations prevail over ethical considerations” and doubted any European country would make the arrest[6]
Countries refusing or hesitant:
- Hungary: Prime Minister Viktor Orbán called the warrants “shameful” and invited Netanyahu with guarantees against arrest[7]
- Germany: Government spokesperson said it’s “hard to imagine arrests could be made”[1:1]
- France: Claims Netanyahu has “immunities” from prosecution[8]
- Italy: Foreign Minister Tajani called Netanyahu’s arrest “unfeasible”[9]
The warrants accuse Netanyahu of war crimes and crimes against humanity, including using starvation as a method of warfare in Gaza between October 2023 and May 2024[10]. While all 27 EU states are legally obligated to enforce ICC warrants, political considerations have created a rift in their response[3:1].
Politico - Netanyahu arrest warrant: Where can he still go in Europe? ↩︎ ↩︎
Straits Times - ICC judges reject Israel’s request to withdraw Netanyahu arrest warrant ↩︎
EurActiv - ICC arrest warrant for Netanyahu ‘binding’ on member states ↩︎ ↩︎
Channel 4 - Netanyahu arrest warrant: Europe split over ICC ruling ↩︎
Newsweek - Netanyahu Arrest Warrant: Full List of Countries That Will Comply with ICC ↩︎ ↩︎
Sweden Herald - Netanyahu Heads to EU Despite ICC Arrest Warrant ↩︎
Washington Examiner - EU says arresting Netanyahu ‘not optional’ as members waiver on warrant ↩︎
i24 News - ICC Upholds Arrest Warrants Against Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant ↩︎
Al Jazeera - ICC prosecutor warned to drop Netanyahu case or be ‘destroyed’ ↩︎
Either you’re stupid or you’re lying.
Where’s the lie?
Literally fucking half of the shit you attribute to democrats.
Stop racism in policing.
Start here. This is a fucking lie and you’re practically a nazi for whitewashing them
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The uni-party trash system.
At least Democrats want to slowly slide us into a monarchy. MAGA wants it NOW!
What a country…
*3rd world shithole country
You don’t have to agree with everything, but there’s a lot of truth in this diagram. Both are serving AIPAC, both don’t care about woking class, both want to collapse the US with infinite military spending,…
Another difference. Republicans just convinced Europe that the USA cannot be trusted anymore as a commercial and defence party, and new deals should be made with the rest of the world to move away from the Dollar.
I fucking hope, but we already seen that at 1st Trump term and after Biden was elected entire EU again got back to licking US boot, including something as unbelivable as fully allowing nordstream sabotage.
I don’t know what to believe about Nordstream, but I’m not even mad if that accelerates the transition out of fossil fuel.
It don’t though, it just rises the price of energy because the gas still flows, even more than before, just from USA, Norway and yes, sill Russia, even more of it, but through middlemen. The sabotage also caused significant ecological catastrophe in the Baltic.
About the sabotage itself you have three versions available:
- Truth, that USA bombed it, possibly with participation of Norway (note above paragraph, curiously the very same countries that gained the most on it, qui bono, eh?)
- USA version, where Ukraine did it, despite lacking means
- Official German/EU version, that is no version, because both above versions means that Germany is either vassal (ver1) or war ally (ver2) of country which attacked Germany in a biggest peacetime sabotage in German history.
It made it painfully clear to the public opinion how much society relies on gas.
Unfortunately the general public doesn’t understand long term reasoning: nor climate change, nor energy independence. If it doesn’t happen right now, it’s ignored by most people. The high spike in price worked really well to open a debate to support more renewables or nuclear power.
Consider that even now, after all that happened, the EU has a noisy minority trying to shoot down alternatives to gas.
FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US”. Besides marginal sympathy for some presidents or over the top ridiculous facts, US politics is not that visible or interesting here.
Bullshit. German politics is riddled with the same talking points as the US. Just today i read a german article talking about a “german roe v wade”
Of course, also in the EU there are far right groups like ECR and Patriots. It doesn’t mean that they rule though.
BTW, I struggle to imagine Germans discussing certain topics using American terms.
Isn’t Germany pro-genocide across the political spectrum?
In seiner Stellungnahme gegenüber „t-online.de“ führte Reimer weiter aus, dass er Brosius-Gersdorf, deren Wahl vor einer Woche aufgrund mangelnder Unterstützung innerhalb der Unionsfraktion ausgesetzt worden war, als Aktivistin wahrnehme, „die über eine Neuinterpretation des Grundgesetzes ein deutsches ,Roe v. Wade‘ erreichen will“. Darin sehe er einen „Bruch mit der gesamten bisherigen Rechtsprechung des Bundesverfassungsgerichts zu Art. 2 Abs. 2 GG“. Jener Artikel besagt: „Jeder hat das Recht auf Leben und körperliche Unversehrtheit. Die Freiheit der Person ist unverletzlich. In diese Rechte darf nur auf Grund eines Gesetzes eingegriffen werden.“
Republicans just convinced Europe that the USA cannot be trusted anymore
FYI: in the EU we don’t play the “it was Biden vs it was Trump” game. We stop at “it was the US”.
What?
What what?
You literally just said that it was because of Republicans that the EU soured on the US and now you’re telling me that in the EU you don’t look at which party is in charge but at the US as a whole. Do you not see how these statements are contradictory?
Which is a good thing
US Democracy = Vote Far Rights or Fascists to combat this terrible Comunism, wearing shirts in Stars and Stripes design. Neo-liberal feudalism
Change my mind
Capitalism is a tool to maximize profit. Whoever thought it was a good idea to let capitalism have influence on laws so that they can maximize its profit was a big fool.
What do you expect? Capitalism, a tool, has by definition no morale. Let it decide politics to increase profit and you end up with that kind of shit society we have today.
Don’t blame the hammer, when you hit your thumb. Also, don’t let the hammer decide where to make the biggest dent.
Can we please start again focusing on the people? Without people there is no society, and there is no market to increase profits.
Start using capitalism and free markets like a tool. Want more renewable and clean energy? Make rules and see the magic of capitalism in making the best out of it.
Instead we let capitalism decide what should be done next and suffer the consequences. It’s as easy as that.
Unfortunately capitalism not only create the rules, they also decide what is news and influence societies views. And that’s why OPs picture is as it is.
Fuck socialism, am I right guys?!
I agree with this 100%.
Capitalism is exceptional at finding ways to provide value when there is a new market. The issue comes when capital gets accumulated and concentrated in the hands of a few.
We’ve seen it dozens of times throughout history where a healthy merchant class with lots of opportunity for upwards mobility ends up in an oligarchy as the market becomes saturated then monopolies, duopolies, and cabals (guilds) form.
The state needs to use the “P” and “L” in PESTEL forces (Political, Economical, Social, Technological, Environmental, Legal) that businesses (from single to large multinational) to identify new markets that need investment.
An examples would be new clean renewable electricity and one way of giving preferrence to this green energy by minimally taxing profts on this energy sold in the national market or international market via grid-interconnect networks (“Gridternets” if you will) with a clear plan to increase the tax to a normalised amount slowly overtime as the green share of the market approaches 100%.
It also has to be used to more aggressively dissuade markets that are more harmful than good now. An example of this is dirty power.
Coal, Oil, and Gas have done wonders for increasing people’s quality of life because they unlocked a new energy density previously unattainable. Now we have alternatives that are by every metric better; more efficient and less polluting.
Therefore, these industries need to be taxed out of existence by using a logarithmic energy carbon tax that keeps increasing year on year. Corruption needs to be rooted out like a weed as much as possible using a politically independent organ of the state to keep it healthy.
Then there’s markets that are stagnant in some state of capture: crumbling infrastructure, food retailer hypermarkets, etc. Windfall suprise taxes on incumbents and grants / zero interest loans for new competitors would reignight competition in those markets and the additional tax revenue can be used to fix the crumbling infrastructure these markets rely on.
And finally, I’d like to see a strong preference for co-operatives where ownership in a free market is much more evenly distributed by making them the least taxed commercial entities with businesses that have a higher concentration of ownership are taxed more through some sort of profit tax multiplier.
It’s much harder for a business to act in a pure profit motive to the detriment of society if the employees have more ownership as it allows morality to be expressed through political power within this business. These employees also then benefit from the profit share as well which gives stability and upward mobility in exchange for their labour.
There, that’s three proposals that could help towards decarbonisation, investing in underfunded infrastructure, and reducing inequality.
I am not a policy expert and there’s bound to be problems with each of those proposals that I haven’t thought of, but we have so much more to gain by working cooperatively together to build a system that aims to better humanity as a whole by using the best tools correctly and safety.
Until we reach an energy density which unlocks technology that enables things like a resourceless economy (a la Star Trek luxury space communism), we’re stuck with the tools of money and capital as the ways to transfer value.
I personally can’t wait for the day where “reputation” rather than money becomes the currency of society, I am willing to work with the tools we have right now to build that future, and I have faith that others are willing to build it with me.
Yes, definitely, but I think you mean an exponential energy tax law, not a logarithmic one.
Yes, correct I do. Engineer brain working in dBs constantly.
Just a reminder that the function of the Democratic party is to continually reduce expectations so that this diagram seems reasonable.
We may have got here eventually anyway, but things are a lot worse for Americans right now because of Trump’s Republicans. Let’s not lose sight of that when complaining about the shit they have in common.
There’s also nobody who might emerge out of the right who would bring something that will make life for everyone better. Only the Democrats have a chance of doing that and engineering a better system that might eventuallyundermine their own political hegemony. Would they without pressure? Of course not. But the right will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base, almost by definition basically.
Only the Democrats have a chance of doing that and engineering a better system that might eventuallyundermine their own political hegemony.
No they don’t
But the right will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base,
The Democrats couldn’t be pressured to stop doing genocide even at the cost of losing the election
I don’t think you’re listening. That’s one of the issues both sides share in common that sucks. Doesn’t change the fact they’re our only hope.
Genocide Joe, you’re my only hope
If your only hope is a party comitting genocide you might as well abandon it and look elsewhere
Where?
PSL, DSA or whoever organizes where you currently are
You can and should support them as they align with your values, but you’ll never get enough votes for them to have any chance of overthrowing the big two. It has to be changed from within, unless you’re prepared to try violence.
Fuck voting, organizing is where its at. I swear if just half the free time as some people on here… (not you specifically)
Since changing from within is impossible, and voting in a new party is highly unlikely, it seems the revolutionaries were right all along.
I’m listening, I just think you’re wrong.
And I brought up that issue specific to show that the Democrats also “will never even be pressured to do anything like that intentionally by it’s base”
Progressive social change has always occurred under the auspices of the left-most of the two major parties. That’s just how it overwhelmingly is. What’s not to agree with? How do you think progress will happen next time it happens?
The hallmark progressive achievements made in this country, many that still exist today (to varying degrees ofc) were a result of third party sweat, blood and tears. Literally.
I recommend reading about the social/workers rights movements of the early 1900s. The Progressive Party led by Roosevelt, The Bull Moose Party with social reformers like Jane Addams and Florence Kelly, the Socialist Party of Eugene Debs… all of these were most prominent in fighting for and ultimately producing a cluster of social welfare, social insurance reforms, women’s suffrage, workers rights/5 day work week, etc.
It was the dedication, pressure and will to not fall in line trying to change the two-party duopoly from within but to build their own coalitions, their own movements on the outside, and thus the mainstream parties were eventually forced to inscribe the populus demands into legislation.
All that to say, healthy third parties are a good thing. It builds actual pressure on your legislators. Politicians wont work on your behalf when they know you’re voting for them anyway – just line their pockets with money from the bourgeois they actually legislate for. Seeking the change you wish to see via third party can and has produced tremendous gains for the working class.
The thing is that your asking tankies to be pragmatic about policy. They would rather let the Palestinian Genocide continue and works lose more rights than to do anything helpful in the near or medium term. They just aren’t serious about the issues.
Its easy for the .ml types to cry and wait for a perfect policy or candidate. They aren’t going hungry, nor under seige of any kind.
The thing is that your asking tankies to be pragmatic about policy.
This “pragmatism” is how we got here in the first place.
Its easy for the .ml types to cry and wait for a perfect policy or candidate.
We’re not looking for a perfect candidate under bourgeois democracy, because we know it will never happen. Previously:
The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
We’re not looking for a perfect candidate under bourgeois democracy, because we know it will never happen. Previously:
In either case you’re not doing shit and you’re not a serious movement. Tankies don’t vote to minimize harm, nor do they vote to expand the progressive wing.
You all are effectively the ratchet democratsyou laughs at because you ultimately won’t show or organize for anything. Tankies aren’t serious people.
Schrodinger’s leftists; simultaneously the reason the Democrats lost the election and the biggest obstacle to progress, but also not a serious movement.
Non.voting is the largest block going back multiple cycles. Trolls like you are concerned but not enough to show up. I’m aware of your trolling, so I won’t entertain you much more
Thank God this image not only has the label “Venn Diagram” but also has a big red arrow pointing to the center and labeled “things the two parties have in common”. I had forgotten the name of this extremely common diagram and I also had no idea how it worked.
