Liberals -> want the means of production to remain privatized aka capitalism
Leftists -> want the means of production to be publicly owned aka socialism
I just wish that people here would take time to explain why liberals are not left instead of just attacking you.
Liberalism is not left because by definition they are socially progressive but economically conservative.
I used to think the liberals are “left” because of the Americam mainstream media (by intentionally muddying political terms) interchange liberal between left. But thanks to Philosophy Tube’s beginner’s video explaining what it means, now I know better.
Classical liberalism is an iteration of liberalism. It is not liberalism. There are also Democratic liberalism and social liberalism among many others. Almost all lean left of center with classic liberalism being more center
Even socialliberalism is still for capitalism, meaning it is right wing ideology. Not to mention every single time any declared socialliberal gets elected it turns out they are just ordinary neoliberal austerity ghoul.
Yea but neoliberals are not left. The fuck do you think US democrats are classic liberals? Also classic liberals are still capitalist supporting fuckwits, so the distinction is irrelevant when discussing the modern left.
Right and there is more than classic liberalism. As I said. The majority of the others are left of center with classic liberalism being the outlier. Of which, Democrats still are right of classic liberalism
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics.
We’re against liberalism as a whole because it’s the ideology that justifies capitalism. We’re against social liberals because they’re seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers.
This is a very introductory overview to liberalism:
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law.[1][2] Liberals espouse various and often mutually conflicting views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.[3] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.[4][5]: 11
How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s?
Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can’t.
This isn’t really relevant here. Social liberalism, democratic liberalism as categories are defined as left of center. A green group and another group labelling themselves socialist whatever isn’t changing what the definition is for sometime with different names
Are you guys being serious right now? This is insane. Liberal values are left of center.
Liberals -> want the means of production to remain privatized aka capitalism
Leftists -> want the means of production to be publicly owned aka socialism
I just wish that people here would take time to explain why liberals are not left instead of just attacking you.
Liberalism is not left because by definition they are socially progressive but economically conservative.
I used to think the liberals are “left” because of the Americam mainstream media (by intentionally muddying political terms) interchange liberal between left. But thanks to Philosophy Tube’s beginner’s video explaining what it means, now I know better.
Liberalism has always been a right-wing philosophy
Classical liberalism is an iteration of liberalism. It is not liberalism. There are also Democratic liberalism and social liberalism among many others. Almost all lean left of center with classic liberalism being more center
Even socialliberalism is still for capitalism, meaning it is right wing ideology. Not to mention every single time any declared socialliberal gets elected it turns out they are just ordinary neoliberal austerity ghoul.
Yea but neoliberals are not left. The fuck do you think US democrats are classic liberals? Also classic liberals are still capitalist supporting fuckwits, so the distinction is irrelevant when discussing the modern left.
Right and there is more than classic liberalism. As I said. The majority of the others are left of center with classic liberalism being the outlier. Of which, Democrats still are right of classic liberalism
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics.
We’re against liberalism as a whole because it’s the ideology that justifies capitalism. We’re against social liberals because they’re seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers.
This is a very introductory overview to liberalism:
The most in-depth delving into it is Losurdo’s Liberalism - A counter history, but you’d have to read many more foundational texts before that one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
Emerging together does not mean they are dependent on each other.
How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s?
Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can’t.
😆
Do you even read bro
Yes I read. Like how I read that Wikipedia link and the other supporting links and references I’ve posted. All saying liberalism is left.
We just have a more nuanced understanding of politics than you do.
Yea but you’re all not authority on any of this. So it doesn’t matter. The rest of the world knows liberalism as left of center. Just facts
we just had a coalition of liberals, "social"democrats and greens here in Germany. Believe me no one thinks that liberals are left of center.
This isn’t really relevant here. Social liberalism, democratic liberalism as categories are defined as left of center. A green group and another group labelling themselves socialist whatever isn’t changing what the definition is for sometime with different names
You are factually incorrect.
Definitely am not. I have plenty of supporting links. You all have … Comments
My other reply to you was literally entirely composed of a supporting link. Quit being disingenuous.
And I told you, you posted a link to classic liberalism. It is a subset of liberalism it is not liberalism
No. We’re right. You’ve been given references. Just because you obstinantly ignore those references does not make you correct or smart.
No I’m right I gave references, nobody has provided anything that has shown that liberalism is right
You’re arguing with people on lemmy.ml.
I got nothing better going on.
Just good to keep in mind you’re arguing with communists about idelogy.
Wow. Helping someone for free. Terrible at being a lib.
😆 I appreciate that. Thank you