You mean they know exactly what the problem but choose bury their heads in the sand.
What’s the problem? Is it unchecked capitalism? I think it might be unchecked capitalism.
Some liberals don’t even think there’s a problem. They think movements like MAGA and Brexit are just low information voters being riled up by algorithms and populists.
to some degree its true. they just fail to grasp what lies beneath it, for one reason or another.
why are those people choosing to be low information? how can algorithms be so effective? why and how are populists so effective in rounding up a nation’s worth of fascists…?
They don’t just think they’re low information voters, liberals make completely casual attributions to low IQ i.e. scientific racist garbage but completely normalized.
Holy fuck this is spot on.
I’m so tired of hearing “they’re so racist”
It’s such a terminating clause. Like we don’t need to actually understand at a deeper level why guy born a Mexican, still is Mexican but is voting for Trump because… They’re racist against Mexicans???
I’m so done with the left. It’s so tiring. They even adapt their messages. I can go back 15 years and still see the exact comments of “they’re racist” while right wing dominate spaces seem to come up with new things every 6 months. Soy cuck Wojack probably conjures up a whole era all our minds right? What about “man they’re racist” what does that conjure up?
The left should lose the right to call anyone low information voters until they sort themselves the fuck out
Libs arent generally considered left.
I think you’re confused, liberals aren’t left. The commenter you are replying to is complaining about liberals, ie “moderate” right wingers, failing to understand far-right wingers.
Liberals are left
big no. neoliberalism is a capitalist ideology. right wing.
Someone hearing for the first time that Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher are staunch liberals.
Are you guys being serious right now? This is insane. Liberal values are left of center.
Liberals -> want the means of production to remain privatized aka capitalism
Leftists -> want the means of production to be publicly owned aka socialismI just wish that people here would take time to explain why liberals are not left instead of just attacking you.
Liberalism is not left because by definition they are socially progressive but economically conservative.
I used to think the liberals are “left” because of the Americam mainstream media (by intentionally muddying political terms) interchange liberal between left. But thanks to Philosophy Tube’s beginner’s video explaining what it means, now I know better.
Classical liberalism is an iteration of liberalism. It is not liberalism. There are also Democratic liberalism and social liberalism among many others. Almost all lean left of center with classic liberalism being more center
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics.
We’re against liberalism as a whole because it’s the ideology that justifies capitalism. We’re against social liberals because they’re seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers.
This is a very introductory overview to liberalism:
The most in-depth delving into it is Losurdo’s Liberalism - A counter history, but you’d have to read many more foundational texts before that one.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law.[1][2] Liberals espouse various and often mutually conflicting views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.[3] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.[4][5]: 11
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
Emerging together does not mean they are dependent on each other.
We just have a more nuanced understanding of politics than you do.
Yea but you’re all not authority on any of this. So it doesn’t matter. The rest of the world knows liberalism as left of center. Just facts
You’re arguing with people on lemmy.ml.
I got nothing better going on.
No, they aren’t. Liberalism is the ideological superstructure of capitalism, while leftists support socialism of various fashions. The driving distinction between right and left is retaining the current system, or progressing onwards to the next.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/left-liberals
Liberal/Left-leaning people embrace social services and government intervention in the economy. Conservative/Right-leaning people support lower taxes, free markets and less government intervention in the economy. Libertarians advocate both personal and economic liberty (freedom). Authoritarians favour strict obedience to authority and government control, at the expense of personal and economic freedom.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/leftright/
the word left is applied to people and groups that have liberal views.
Yes, liberals tend to define the entire scope of political economy to a narrow, capitalist viewpoint. That doesn’t make it correct. A huge range of viewpoints narrowly occupies the “radical” portion, while an absolute mountain of space comparatively is given to subdivisions of capitalism. It’s a deeply silly graph.
I think I get it. Right wing groups like koch Bros and heritage institutes push the left to fracture into very niche small subsets in order to isolate making it hard for those groups to organize and easier to kill them off. Much like how a cheetah separates a young calf from the herd. So what groups are you talking about for your “huge range of viewpoints”
Totally not silly at all to get hyper specific about political ideology. I’m a liberal right center neo cat Audi rhino born a capitalist but transitioned to a socialist somewhere around 1992 when political synergy was at its peak
Liberals are rightwing.
There was a brief moment the US democratic party went social democratic, from Roosevelt to Carter and these days there’s a small resurgance with Mamdani.
But Clinton, Obama, Biden, Harris and Cuomo are all at the very least centre-right wing.
Yea what about in Canada
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics.
We’re against liberalism as a whole because it’s the ideology that justifies capitalism. We’re against social liberals because they’re seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers.
Canada’s two main parties are both right-wing. They support capitalism, and the rule of capitalists over the economy and government. The canadian conservative party agrees with them in that.
Or look at Australia. Their two main parties are Labour vs the liberal party (both are pretty right wing, but in that country the liberals openly position themselves to the right of the other party).
Or take Japan. Their far right party is called the liberal democrats.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
Yea I get it. Liberalism is left of center. There’s no denying it. A lot of you just moved far left to the point that you all think the center moved with you. It did not. The political spectrum is not centered on socialism/capitalist. The options are not support socialism or capitalism. That is very lazy way to categorize the political spectrum. There’s more to it.
No they’re not, I hate to break it to you but most conservatives are liberals. What you’re referring to is liberals picking up on social policies championed by the left.
Yes they are. A Liberal for most political subgroups in liberalism are left of center with the odd leaning center right. Liberalism values mostly are left of center values.
Please define liberalism for me.
They are racist though though. Non white people can still accept and prop up systemic white supremacy. Anyone who supports the US or NATO is doing this. I see it all the time among my family and friends who are not white. To leftists racism isn’t just prejudice based on race, its prejudice based on race + the power in society to enforce that as a system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_plus_power
What if a leftist invented wojack?
Even better to my point then that the right was more effective with using it. Something about the left is super passive which is weird because they’re so loud with what they’ll do one day if ever they had the opportunity to do something about the thing they’re really mad at for that day they’ll totally do it.
I mean the internet is the worst place to do politics so idc if the right used some meme I made up. Want to do politics go outside, it was campaigning and canvassing that won the election for Zohran, it’s also what got Die Linke 10% of the vote in Germany. Real politics happens in the real world. Yeah the right wing is loud online, but they’re fucking cowards in real life. Most of the leftists I know are doing shit in real life not posting. FYI I told the wojack joke in real life then somebody posted it on the web, same with shocked pikachu also a joke told in real life. You’d be suprised how much doing stuff in real life achieves.
Everything is online. Nobody knows you knocked on doors in the neighborhood while people were eating supper. After supper people are logging into their favorite social media and engaging with content. Content which right now is leaning heavily on the right and affecting generations. I’ll argue all day that everything you said is exactly what the left is fucked and totally losing everything for the foreseeable future.
Zohran I hope to God succeeds but he’s going to need so much support online and the left removed themselves from every platform, they have no connection, structure or voices to organize online, they have no tools to assist. They all hate AI. They think every platforms is racist except fully leftist ones.
TPUSA, Heritage foundation, Cato institute, Koch Bros fucking UFC and barstool sports are all going to really amplify and sabotage Zohran. They have so many ins with business and media, they’ll all self sandstone sabotage to make sure the numbers can be amplified ONLINE to as many people as possible. The left is so far behind the times, they have no ability to counter this very foreseeable future.
Lol ok mr very online guy. You know that those media organisations you mentioned are all funded by billionaires. People like me aren’t funded because we say stuff that is uncomfortable and I don’t give a shit about appeasing advertisers. The biggest difference you can make is in the real world, being there for your community volunteering tennant unions etc. Posting is the lowest effort and easiest thing you can do. Actual struggle happens in real life.
Then why the fuck do you people show up to protest??
How does it make any sense to you that people will drive miles to some street and stand around while police kick your heads in. You cannot argue protesting publicly is effective yet engagement and capture online is not. What is really fucking crazy is how a lot of the left are convinced a public protest is Mecca while online engagement (which every one is putting money into as you said) is crap.
Almost like the people who put money into the effective methods are convincing their opponent to do the ineffective thing while they convince them the effective methods that they’re all invested in is useless.
They’re funding what you are doing for free right now. It’s insane how thick minded so many of you are. Every comment or content you all make costs them money to counter. It’s a numbers game. It costs you nothing. Take every protester willing to show up in the streets and teach them how to create media.
The left is cooked. So much brain rot on the left. You’re all calling people who have beat you in every arena as low information. Yet they beat you all, everywhere. How’d that no Kings protest work out?
Online is where opinions are shaped and formed. It’s a force multiplier. I’m so done with the left. Have no idea what they’re doing. It’s like watching people click their fingers in a park all over again.
“Okay one second can someone draw each side as dark seid and batman so I can understand what’s going on?”
When a capitalist system collapse, the always make an reset with a war.
If you want to know more, Lenin described this in more detail in “Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism”.
Yes, but the current heatwave in Spain I was not going to put here all Lenin’s manuscript here because of an axiom like this.
