Would that not piss of Jesus? It came to me after watching the pope rap from WKUK.

  • markovs_gun@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    ITT- a lot of people who are very confidently wrong even about basic facts about this.

    Jesus flipping tables wasn’t aimed at the priests and church authorities, but at people who were based in the outer area of the temple selling supplies to make sacrifices and offerings prescribed in Jewish law (see the book of Leviticus for more descriptions of these sacrifices). Jewish law at the time required a lot of animal sacrifices and monetary offerings at the Temple, and Jesus didn’t seem to have any issues with these- after all, they were a core part of the religion at the time and again, the Torah explicitly states that priests are supposed to live off of Temple offerings (note that in this passage the priestly class are referred to as “Sons of Aaron”). So it would have been odd for Jesus, as someone who at least according to the Bible was very knowledgeable about scripture and Jewish law, would have been surprised at that aspect.

    What he was mad about was the commerce occurring around this system. The Gospel descriptions of this event discuss “moneychangers” and people selling doves. These are people who exchanged Roman currency for traditional Jewish currency (which is what ancient monetary offerings were denominated in) and sold animals (and based on other writings in the Torah, probably spiced cakes as well) that could be sacrificed in the Temple on the purchaser’s behalf. As for why this made Jesus mad, that is up for debate. The obvious answer is that it represents greed and people making money off religion, but the large amount of sacrifices required by Jewish law at the time really encouraged this behavior just from a practical standpoint. Myself I think he would have been completely fine with it had it been happening right outside the Temple instead, but the Temple was considered an especially holy place, where God’s presence literally descended down to Earth to be with mankind in the innermost portion, which each concentric ring acting as a sort of “air lock” for ritual impurity.

    So the problem was not that the priests were making money from religion (again, this was required by Jewish law at the time) but that these other people were hanging out in the Temple treating it as a marketplace rather than as an exceptionally holy and highly ritualized space. Understanding this is kind of difficult for modern people because we don’t really treat religion the same as people did back then, and especially from a Christian standpoint we tend to view religion as a matter of personal belief and not impurity that occurs as a natural consequence of things that happen and that must be cleansed before encounters with the divine.

    • FearMeAndDecay@literature.cafe
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      5 days ago

      This is a very good explanation. To answer the specific question about modern offering plates, those are fine bc it’s not selling anything, it’s a free will offering to support the church. Of course, some churches put a lot more pressure on their congregants and basically force them to give beyond their means by saying shit like “God demands you give x amount” or “buying salvation” and stuff, and that behavior would likely get them whipped by Jesus too. Unfortunately the people who do stuff like that, don’t actually care about Jesus and his teachings

  • bagsy@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    The bible is long and contradictory. its a bit like palm reading, it can say whatever you want it to say.

    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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      6 days ago

      A big anthology of paraphrased parables mixed with rants, all from different writers and then edited by the Greeks? Sounds about right.

  • LordCrom@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    If someone asks, “What would Jesus do?” Remember that flipping tables and whipping a bitch are viable options.

      • Mediocre_Bard@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        Lake, K. (1911). Codex Sinaiticus Petropolitanus, Oxford (An old ass version of the bible from c. 400 C.E.

        Matthew 21:12-13

        12 And Jesus entered into the temple of God, and cast out all that sold and bought in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers, and the seats of those that sold doves,

        13 and said to them: It is written: My house shall be called a house of prayer; but you make it a den of robbers.

        So, Jesus showed up at the temple and “cast out” anyone engaged in commerce, calling them robbers.

        Of the four apostles that mention the incident (Matthew, Luke, Mark, and John), only John indicates that a whip was used.

        13 And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And he found in the temple those that sold oxen, and sheep, and doves, and the moneychangers sitting; 15 and having made a scourge of cords, he drove all out of the temple, the sheep also and the oxen, and poured out the money of the money-changers, and overturned the tables; 16 and to those that sold doves he said: Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house a house of merchandise. 17 The disciples remembered that it is written: Zeal for thy house consumes me.

        The scourge of cords, with scourge meaning “a whip used as an instrument of punishment”.

        Saved you 17 Google searches. /s

  • glasratz@feddit.org
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    6 days ago

    It can be even funnier. I’m an atheist, but I go to church regularly with my wife. Some weeks ago the priest read that part of the bible - and everyone turned their head, looking at the stands in the back of the church where they were going to sell fair trade products later that day.

  • MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    It to help the christian missionaries across the world, but not the neighbour sleeping on a mattress on their porch.

    Its to help replace the church carpets that the pastor doesn’t like, not help the homeless community who is living under the bridge in the city.

    I may be a biased, unhappy, ex-church goer, but that’s what I saw

  • Triasha@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    If you think your church is doing good work, you give.

    The church I grew up in closed for lack of funds. The preacher never lived large, they weren’t taking more than people wanted to give.

    I would never give money to a mega church, but I have donated to UU churches as an adult.

  • leftascenter@jlai.lu
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    6 days ago

    Acts 4 along mark 10 are pretty clear that Christians are supposed to give it all and live in a community where “as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto each, according as any one had need.”

    This is also supported by the teachings that literally states rich people won’t go to heaven (unless they give it away).

    So Jesus and early christians were all about living in a commune.

    Now, most modern churches come from a roman imperial implementation of an uprising religion at a time where different temple within polytheism were associated with concurring political factions leading to unstability. Christianity was authorized, then chosen as a state religion and accordingly structured. Things branched out from there, becoming a central part of international politics throughout the middle ages, then different flavors of christianity raising from protestanism (which remain globally a minority compared to catholiscism), but they are all structured towards their own goals rather than Jesus’s teachings.

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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    5 days ago

    Well since the bible is badly written fiction, cobbled together from dozens of books written over hundreds of years, based off other stories from hundreds of years before that period… Does it matter at all?

  • amzd@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    He called out the practice of killing animals for money, specifically calling the priests murderers during the event you reference. Not much of that spirit left in modern churches.

      • amzd@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        He calls them “λῃστής”

        Even in the source you linked that is translated to robber. To rob means “stealing using force or violence”. Who were the priests using violence against you think? Their clients or animals?

        • CompassRed@discuss.tchncs.de
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          5 days ago

          It can also mean to overcharge someone, which is likely how it is used here. The exorbitant price of sacrificial animals is multiply attested. The poor couldn’t afford it

          I’m not sure how your interpretation is meant to work out. I don’t see how people would be compelled to give their belongings to someone if the threat is directed towards random sacrificial animals. Are you trying to say that they were stealing from the sacrificial animals themselves, and that’s why he called them robbers? It doesn’t make any sense to me.

  • melsaskca@lemmy.ca
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    5 days ago

    There are a lot of good words in the good book but if you look around at most of the Christian church-goers they are golden-calf people.

  • DrFunkenstein@sh.itjust.works
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    7 days ago

    Specifically, he flipped the tables of money lenders and people selling stuff. Donating a tithe has been a part of Abrahamic religion since the Old Testament.