Please take this discussion to this post: https://lemmy.ml/post/28376589
Main content
Selfhosting is always a dilemma in terms of security for a lot of reasons. Nevertheless, I have one simple goal: selfhost a Jellyfin instance in the most secure way possible. I don’t plan to access it anywhere but home.
TL;DR
I want the highest degree of security possible, but my hard limits are:
- No custom DNS
- Always-on VPN
- No self-signed certificates (unless there is no risk of MITM)
- No external server
Full explanation
I want to be able to access it from multiple devices, so it can’t be a local-only instance.
I have a Raspberry Pi 5 that I want to host it on. That means I will not be hosting it on an external server, and I will only be able to run something light like securecore rather than something heavy like Qubes OS. Eventually I would like to use GrapheneOS to host it, once Android’s virtual machine management app becomes more stable.
It’s still crazy to me that 2TB microSDXC cards are a real thing.
I would like to avoid subscription costs such as the cost of buying a domain or the cost of paying for a VPN, however I prioritize security over cost. It is truly annoying that Jellyfin clients seldom support self-signed certificates, meaning the only way to get proper E2EE is by buying a domain and using a certificate authority. I wouldn’t want to use a self-signed certificate anyways, due to the risk of MITM attacks. I am a penetration tester, so I have tested attacks by injecting malicious certificates before. It is possible to add self-signed certificates as trusted certificates for each system, but I haven’t been able to get that to work since it seems clients don’t trust them anyways.
Buying a domain also runs many privacy risks, since it’s difficult to buy domains without handing over personal information. I do not want to change my DNS, since that risks browser fingerprinting if it differs from the VPN provider. I always use a VPN (currently ProtonVPN) for my devices.
If I pay for ProtonVPN (or other providers) it is possible to allow LAN connections, which would help significantly, but the issue of self-signed certificates still lingers.
With that said, it seems my options are very limited.
I applaud your accomplishment as a penetration tester. I am disappointed at your lack of understanding regarding non-public networking.
Move your VPN to your router. Don’t bother with HTTPS on anything not exposed to the Internet.
If that does not satisfy your concerns, you may want to give up using electronic devices.
Run in at home and get Tailscale setup with a Headscale server, or just use Tailscale straight out of you want. That’s the simplest.
A better option would be getting an OpenWRT router and start building proper infrastructure for doing something like this. You’ll have many different options for decentralized and NAT traversing VPNs with this option. GL.Inet Flint is a great choice.
Run in at home and get Tailscale setup with a Headscale server, or just use Tailscale straight out of you want. That’s the simplest.
I have no idea how to do this. Do you have any resources? Does it cost a subscription fee?
A better option would be getting an OpenWRT router
This is what I have planned. OpenWrt Two my beloved
You’ll have many different options for decentralized and NAT traversing VPNs with this option. GL.Inet Flint is a great choice.
I also don’t know how to do this. Resources are much appreciated :)
Okay, so let me explain a bit:
Tailscale is a commercial client that is semi-FOSS. It’s built on Wireguard, which is FOSS, but the cloud hosted architecture does cost money after I think 5 clients.
Headscale is a FOSS implementation of Tailscale, and totally free to host, skipping the above.
Tailscale itself is super easy to use, and you just install it on a node, register it, and then it has access to any other device on that secured network. So if you install it on your Jellyfin machine at home behind your normal firewall, then install it on your phone, you’ll be able to connect to it without forwarding ports for messing around with much.
It should be that simple.
Does Headscale conflict with ProtonVPN/Mullvad VPN (i.e. can I use those alongside Headscale)? Android has a limited number of VPN slots, so that’s why I ask.
Nope. Wireguard runs outside the same protocols.
Just give Tailscale a try first because it’s essentially free for a few nodes. If you need more and don’t want to pay, then investigate Headscale.
So:
- ProtonVPN is installed on my Android phone
- Android has
Always-on VPNenabled - Android has
Block connections without VPNenabled - Host Jellyfin on my Raspberry Pi 5
- Install Headscale on my Raspberry Pi 5
- Install Headscale on my Android phone
- Install a Jellyfin client on my Android phone
- Configure everything
And that will work? It will be encrypted during transit? And only run on the LAN? Does ProtonVPN need to allow LAN connections (I assume it does)?
Sorry, it may be confusing, but Headscale is ONLY the free server component. The client is still Tailscale’s open client. That’s why I’m saying just sign up and try it first with Tailscale, and then if you need more connections without paying, create a Headscale server and re-register your clients to that to skip charges.
Alright, I’m slowly learning, bare with me here:
- ProtonVPN is always-on and blocks connections without VPN
- Jellyfin and Headscale are hosted on the Pi (or does Headscale need its own server?)
- Tailscale and a Jellyfin client are installed on the phone
Then:
- Will that will run fully on the LAN?
- Will it be encrypted during transit?
- Does ProtonVPN need to allow LAN connections?
I think the easiest way would be to have two vlans on your local network. One that is connected to the internet and another that is local only. I think you’d have to switch networks when wanting to access the jellyfin server in that instance, but would negate the main issue, which is your VPN.
Edit: that’s about the most secure you can get I think. If you bought a different physical router to host it, you’d have about as secure a setup as possible.
This is fair, and does solve the problem. I didn’t explicitly state that I needed it to be convenient, so you’re right. Having one network that is LAN only and switching to it to use Jellyfin, and having a second network that is WAN only and using ProtonVPN there would probably be the most secure setup. Unfortunately, it still doesn’t solve the issue of encryption in transit over the LAN, but that might be fixable with Tailscale. The LAN could even be ethernet-only, to mitigate wireless attacks.
That makes me wonder if there’s a way I could simply plug an ethernet cord from my phone to the airgapped Pi and use it that way. Is that possible? Surely it is. Could ProtonVPN be used on the phone even while the phone is connected physically to the Pi?
If you are willing to swap to mullvad then you can also install tailscale. You can then choose to connect to your jellyfin server (over LAN) or (over tailscale-wireguard tunnel over LAN) while the rest of the traffic flows through mullvad.
Fwiw jellyfin apps don’t even allow you to use a self signed cert.
I know. It’s very unfortunate, but I understand why.
You can also add a second network interface to the computer that needs to access the jellyfin server over LAN.
If you’re running externally, use a cloudflare tunnel.
No ports exposed = no attack surface. This is 99% of security.
HTTPS is provided by CF although only secures comms between your devices to CF, not CF to your Pi, meaning CF can see clear text technically.
If that’s not good enough then use a VPN server like PiVPN and put it on your pi and OpenVPN on your devices. *This has nothing to do with paid VPN Client subscriptions like Tunnelbear or Proton or whatever. *
You will be running a VPN server on your pi to which you will connect from your devices on which you want to watch JF by downloading a device profile to your devices and opening it in the OpenVPN app.
You do not need to pay for anything at all anywhere ever (other than something for DDNS and a domain name), use a strong password and make sure your JF is updated if there’s any CVE. Expose nothing else to the internet.
You don’t even need HTTPS at that point or any certs, a VPN will encrypt your traffic anyway. The only cleartext you’ll have is between your VPN and your JF, and if both are on the pi then the only MITM vector is literally inside your Pi which is unlikely to have any issues.
So you want a self hosted jellyfin instance that you only plan to access at home, as secure and simply as possible?
Buy an HDMI splitter.
