Google has been trying to make Android proprietary for a few years now, and that’s not news, as many AOSP default apps have been abandoned over time in favor of proprietary Google ones. This was never a huge problem for me, as you can still use those apps without network access or use open source alternatives like Fossify on a custom ROM.
However, the situation is quickly getting worse, now that Google is actively trying to prevent the development of custom ROMs and taking a page from Apple’s book by forcing developers to beg them for permission to release apps on the Android platform, even outside of the Play Store - giving Google full control.
Is there still any hope left for privacy respecting Android ROMs? What do you think will happen next? And what would be your suggestions for those looking for a phone in 2025?
If you have a different perspective on the situation, also please comment below!
This is just hearsay but apparently GrapheneOS will be unaffected from Play Store control.
As of right now, it’s looking like GrapheneOS will be unaffected, and Google has yet to lock down the bootloader. So this should remain a valid option for at least 2 years.
Other than that:
- Any smartphones with an unlocked bootloader + any ROMs without gapps
- Chinese smartphones with non-Google Android builds
- Linux smartphones
- Bonus: Huawei is about to release their own non-Android OS, but I wouldn’t expect it to be privacy-friendly
Honestly there probably isn’t any good, long-term solution. Personally I’m somewhat shocked we’ve gone this many years with reasonably open smartphones. Next step is probably closing bootloaders in new laptops, as part of the switch to ARM (which is already undergoing).
I’m pretty seriously considering the pinephone. I think it’s super neat there’s a LoRa module backplate you can buy with it, although my understanding is nobody has made it work with meshtastic yet.
I’m a huge fan of Pine64, but I wouldn’t expect the PinePhone to be a great replacement for an Android smartphone. Personally I have quite extensive experience with PineBook Pro, PineTime and PineBuds Pro. I haven’t had the chance to try the PinePhone, but I’d definitely go for the Pro.
Even then, prepare for a junky experience and forget about lixuries such as good camera, nice screen, smooth UI/UX. Their devices are great, and the ideas behind them more so. But unfortunately they rarely work well, perhaps with the exception of PineBuds Pro.
FYI, the Pro has been discontinued: https://pine64.org/2025/08/14/august_2025_short_update/
Hey everyone! As many have noticed, the PinePhone Pro is currently out ot stock on the Pine Store. Unfortunately we have to deliver you the following news: the PinePhone Pro is officially discontinued. We were told it didn’t sell well enough to keep production going. But the good news for current owners are that spare parts will still be made for up to two years, depending on demand. Meanwhile, the trusty PinePhone (A64) is still alive and kicking, and Pine Store plans to keep it rolling for about two more years.
Well, that sucks. So I guess the better move here would be to wait for something new? I don’t think the regular PinePhone is at all viable as a daily driver.
Depends, if it is used as a dumbphone (calls, SMS, being in sleep most of the time), it is okayish. However, going outside dumphone sphere, it becomes cumbersome to use.
If it can handle basic calling and texting, mp3 playback, and occasionally open my banking/email (both of which have acceptably usable mobile websites) I think I can work with that. If I’m home I use my computer, if I’m out and about I’m too busy to be on my phone for more than it takes to transfer money or fire off a quick text.
Linux phone will hopefully become realistic thing.
But the more this goes on the more my attitude has changed. I now do far less on my phone, I’m more careful about what I expose to it. As a result I spend very little time on it and that’s been great.
To be clear I hate what’s happening, it’s just been working out to improve my time.
I think you still can have a Linux phone with GNOME, there’s a GNOME version for mobile.
After all, what is a smartphone? Just a convenient computer that can make calls.
Linux + GNOME will do that for you.
This is from 2022 and it looks pretty good to me: https://blogs.gnome.org/shell-dev/2022/09/09/gnome-shell-on-mobile-an-update/
Plain burner flip phone and a wifi only Linux device that connects to a hotspot. F google and Apple.
Until substantially more people join the fight for privacy or something else fundamentally changes, I think there is a very real possibility of Google completely clamping down on Android while governments and workplaces mandate apps that only run on phones with all of Google or Apple’s bells and whistles.
But the folks at GrapheneOS, Calyx, and Murena seem to be a devoted and resourceful bunch, so I am hopeful that they can give something for us to work with, even if Google pulls the plug, whether it’s a fork of Android or rebasing to mobile Linux.
If that all falls through, I’ll look for whichever phone supports Linux best and eventually move everything over. The vast majority of the apps I use regularly on my GrapheneOS phone aren’t very demanding and have a decent alternative on Linux. And whatever apps are forced on me by other people will reside on a dedicated Android phone, ideally with a removable battery.
For this year, I’d still recommend a secondhand or reseller Pixel with GrapheneOS. Everything just works on it.
we need the devs who make lineageos to come up with something, because that’s what most people have access to. and their stance is that they won’t be doing anything to bypass any of google’s restrictions.
that’s if unlocking is still a thing in the near future.
Yes, absolutely there is hope.
Phones that don’t support Google play services (AKA any hardcore privacy phone) will not be directly effected by Google restricting sideloading. The restriction is only for phones that use the Google suite. (source: https://9to5google.com/2025/08/25/android-apps-developer-verification/ “This requirement applies to ‘certified Android devices’ that have Play Protect and are preloaded with Google apps.”) Graphene OS isn’t going anywhere, AOSP is open source, even if Google tried to make that change in the OS, the community would hard-fork AOSP instantly and continue like nothing ever happened.
Realistically this is going to squeeze people “in the middle” towards fully-google controlled Android (one exteme) and towards fully-de-googled Android (the other extreme). Its just elminating the middle. Which is bad for people trying to gradually de-google their life, but not as dire as it might seem.
On the bright side, this is an opportunity for play-services spoofing to become commonplace and easy, and could cause more apps to avoid google play services. The EU also has a shot at forcing google to allow sideloading, since they’ve recently been forcing Apple to move in that direction.
So, while not a bright future, its far from hopeless for privacy respecting Android phones.
This is the point, isn’t it?
Lock down their own ecosystem because they’re jealous of how Apple does it, so they can herd all users into their walled garden. Then close the gates behind them. There’s no easy way out, you can’t just wander back and forth anymore. You have to scale a wall in the dead of night and shed a tear as you look back and see everyone else having a lovely life, then set off into the dark forest of privacy on your own.
People hate friction in the first place. This is as much friction as they can realistically make on their own without triggering anti-trust cases and EU fines.
I’ve always wanted to try one of these.
yeah i can see this kinda thing becoming the resistance by the looks of it. i’m already wondering to myself if it could be practical to use something like this with postmarket or aosp.
i wonder if i could make it thinner and more ergonomic if i desoldered unused io.
I’m not gonna go looking for it or share it, but I am here using my Librem 5 and kinda feeling like that kid in the meme hitting a bong in the background while people in the foreground fight.
Is all the talk about not recieving phones ordered and the poor customer service just a smear campaign or is there truth to it?
How do you like the kill switch?
What country/service are you on?
Have you heard any rumors regarding the inventory issues? They do not have US modem version of their phones in stock, even if you get the really expensive one or a refurbished option.
For context, I am probably as much of a Purism fanboy as you are likely to find…
Is all the talk about not recieving phones ordered and the poor customer service just a smear campaign or is there truth to it?
There is a lot of truth to it, but I do think there were a few very loud voices making it sound worse than it was. I got mine in June 2023, and I was one of the last people on the “preorder” list. I hear a few people mention not receiving theirs still every now and then. The cases I saw mostly came down to emails landing in Spam/Junk folders on the customers end.
But I do think Purism’s support was very lacking in past years. In recent months I have seen some new faces in their Matrix and forums and the new people are really great and responsive. I do not blame certain past Purism employees who were in the firing lane for these issues. Rather I blame Purism’s handling of the refunds for drawing up enough ire to make Purism’s support reps sound like the bad guys.
The refund thing was less than great, for sure. I feel they are improving.
How do you like the kill switch?
Love em. I wish the modem powered on faster but that is nit the fault of the switch, or really a big problem. It takes like 20-30 seconds maybe. The Wifi powers on in a few seconds.
What country/service are you on?
US, Mint Mobile. AT&T also worked for me in the past.
Have you heard any rumors regarding the inventory issues?
Hmmm, maybe? I know there was supposed to be stock of new Liberty Phone main boards this year, and there was hope they would go on sale as a sort of L5 upgrade path. This either did not happen, or Purism is waiting for something to announce it.
I don’t own any other Purism hardware, and so I do not pay much attention to the L14 stock or the Mini or anything.
Thanks so much for letting me know all that. The phones are in stock, but just not with the North American modem selections. Maybe I could contact the company and see if they will arrive soon. I makes me a bit nervous to pay so much with all the hoopla that has happened, but the big corpo stuff is driving me absolutely nuts.
If you don’t commit to anything in the coming months, it may be worth checking it out after Purism (finally :)) pushes out some much needed OS updates. If you go to their forums you’ll see people talking about Crimson and Dawn, this is that update I am referring to.
How much does the Librem 5 satisfy what you want out of a daily driver phone?
I am satisfied with it. Calls/SMS/MMS all work fine. Internet and the few apps I use work fine.
I will admit though that many (most?) others might not agree. Banking apps, GPS navigation, these are things I don’t care about.
I have gripes with the L5 but I am never, ever going back. My next phone will probably be Purism’s next phone, if they have one.
I hear good things about this.
For some reason, this is blocked on uBlock
Looks cool, but unless I’m missing something, they’ve only published a few bits and pieces of the LibertOS code
The EU. That’s where my hope lies.
the eu is pushing for every chat conversation to be snooped on lol
I live in EU, and that shit drives me nuts.
Stop spying on your citizens!
Denmark is.
I’ve heard that there’s phones that use Linux, so I imagine once modifying Android isn’t an option focus will probably go into making that more viable.
There has been focus on making it not viable in my opinion. We’re going to need to use dumb phones and faraday bags soon. I am about to give up. I can not compete with a bunch of psychos with billions of dollars that constantly need more and more money and data.
Since my Dad wasnt able to get me a Google Pixel I’m honestly considering a dumbphone at this point. Make my Samsung a glorified MP3 player.
I was thinking of selling the Samsung, getting a dumb phone or Purism. I gave an old Ipod classic thay still works. Its so nice to listen to shit with no tracking.
Only if enough people support it…
Yes. As long as GrapheneOS still exists there is at least some hope. The sad thing is even before this outside of GrapheneOS there really isn’t any other “ROM” actually focused on privacy.
Not on Android. People love to stan for Android because “it’s open source,” but Android would have gone nowhere if Google didn’t buy it, and Google wouldn’t have bought it if they weren’t convinced it would let them scrape more personal data than Gmail. (And Andy Rubin made Android because he heard Steve Jobs say the iPhone would run OS X, and he thought he could probably whip up a Linux distro to run on a phone.)
You could get an iPhone and not run any apps by Google, Meta, Microsoft, X, or any of the other privacy-opposed companies. You’d also better change the default search off of Google. DuckDuckGo is an option. Ecosia might be. Not sure. The issue is, while Apple says they’re all about privacy, that’s based on them being a computer/hardware company first (and Google being a data company first). However, Apple is heavily leaning into services now — Apple Music, Apple TV+, Apple News+, and more — and there are rumors they want their own search engine. So while Apple may be privacy strong now, you don’t know what they’ll be a year from now, or three, or five.
It’s like Tim Cook (Apple CEO) said about Facebook when they introduced the tracking limiter. “You can still give Facebook permission to track you all over the web, they just gotta get your permission first.” That’s true of privacy. You can still use Google, Meta, Microsoft, X, TikTok, and other privacy-violating companies’ products, but what you share is entirely up to you. You can use some of those services in Safari and block some tracking, or you can install the apps and allow it all. It’s up to you.
Or, you can buy a Pixel and reward Google’s business model, and put GrapheneOS on it. That is probably better, privacy-wise, than using an iPhone. But you’re still rewarding Google’s business model. And if they’re making so much money off your data that opting out isn’t even an option, why does the Pixel cost the same the iPhone does (and more, considering the Pixel Fold)? You are getting more RAM, but RAM is cheap. You’re not getting a better processor — Apple has won that race for years. Camera tech is about 50/50. Screen is up in the air — I think Apple’s is better, but Google et al use higher resolutions. Apple buys from the same companies but screens are made to spec which is why Apple’s are better than those by companies they buy from. Their spec is more demanding. “Good enough” is what passes in Android — it’s like how iPhones use NVMe and Androids use UFS. NVMe is more expensive, and it’s faster on paper, but in the real world? UFS is good enough. You wouldn’t see a difference, or a significant one, in real world usage. So what are you paying for in a Pixel? The lower specs plus the privacy/data factor should make the Pixel significantly cheaper… except Google is a publicly traded company, so they can’t sell it that low.
Apple may not be the best option, but they’re advertising that they are (with regards to privacy). And I think they’re trying. I’m not saying they’re saints. They are doing better than Google though. And you have to decide if that’s worth your money. And dealing with a crappy keyboard. The keyboard sucks.
Apple has a search engine, it’s just not publicly accessible. They’ve had a web crawler for many years and their internal search engine is likely what powers things like siri suggested sites and information for apple maps. It is correct they could enter the search and advertising game at any moment, though unlikely because it would destroy their brand integrity.
That said apple is no saint for privacy. For one they actively enable google; they take billions from google to fund safari development in exchange for prioritizing google as built in search and feeding google user data. For a company like Mozilla this is an ethical conundrum; without googles money they’d likely be done. For a company like apple it is inexcusable. the few billion, while a tremendous amount (I think 18 billion?) is a pittance to them.
Further to your point of “active permission” with the tracking limiter this is not always the case. Apple is aware and does not do anything to reform. Part of the reason companies want you to use their app on ios is because then you will be far more likely to open links via the in app browser, which is still safari/webkit, but now escapes sandboxing and allows for far more precise tracking and fingerprinting even if you utilize the tracking limitations built into ios.
Notice how only sketchy games with tons of blatant ads will prompt the “ask ad not to track” box. Instagram, twitter, youtube, reddit, etc generally don’t because they don’t need to track you through permitted routes. Apple has long been aware of this and continue to do nothing (forcing links to open in safari or another browser, limiting traffic on in app browsers, etc). Lord knows what other tricks scumbags like facebook have to circumvent systems and track everything you do. Apple is well aware it happens without user consent but tolerates it and then has the gall to say their hardware and software is “privacy oriented”
Yes, ironically I just read another article about how Facebook/Meta has gotten around the ATT (App Tracking thing, I forget what the other T stands for) with in-app browsers. The article’s point was that all the beef between Apple and Meta is just for show and that they need each other like Apple and Google, Apple and Samsung, et al. So yeah, with you on that.
Keep in mind that every Apple phone is also an AirTag, even if “powered off”. This isn’t the case with most Android phones, and you can get one with a removable battery to ensure it. Sure, there’s Faraday bags, but they are easy to mess up, while you can’t go wrong with just pulling the power at the source.
Also, you don’t have to buy from Google. There’s the second-hand and discount reseller market.
We shouldn’t live life settling for the “lesser evil”, we need more hardware to support things like GrapheneOS.
It’s the other way around, it’s down to GrapheneOS to support other hardware. They simply choose to focus on Pixels.
You’re onto something with the AirTags but you haven’t got it quite right. Every Apple device participates in the Find My network, which means any Apple device marked as lost will have its location reported, anonymously, by every other Apple device it can communicate with. This is a good thing, unless you’re being stalked via an AirTag placed on your person, but Apple has taken pains to mitigate this issue. One shoe company recently released shoes with AirTag compartments so parents could track their kids, and the placement should mitigate the beeping they can emit. Honestly the AirTags and Find My network do more good than harm, the impact to devices participating in the Find My network is minimal, and if it’s your device that’s lost, you don’t want people opting out so thieves can get away with stealing your stuff.
