“It’s important to remember that it’s not zero-sum. We can care about the well-being of women and girls and also acknowledge that young men are struggling, too. Those don’t have to be at odds.”
Wealth inequality is the cause of almost every single economic and social issue in existence.
If young men had the money to have agency in their lives they would be living life instead of living with their parents to save money while seeking validation through internet fascists.
If school wasn’t desigend to be a day care service for Capitalists our children would be properly socialized with the different sexes/genders before getting the chance to grow up into incels.
Ah, that’s why there are no rich incels!
/s
The term “incel” doesn’t really make sense. It’s not involuntary, by any definition of the word that I’ve seen.
Almost anyone can find a partner simply through effort. Diet, exercise, hygiene, etiquette, dressing nicely, socializing, actively seeking a partner. Notice something about that list? Pretty much everyone can do those things. It’s just a matter of effort.
Yes, there are some exceptions, for example from people with severe disability, but those people rarely call themselves “incels.” The majority are people who are perfectly capable of doing these things.
If you don’t practice basketball and you don’t even go to the tryouts, you don’t get to say that your not making the team was “involuntary.”
As someone who was previously involuntarily celibate, I have to say that this comment really misses the actual problem, which is mental health. I had basically been suffering from some combination of depression, social anxiety, and high functioning autism from around age 8. This didn’t leave me with much in the way of friends or social skills, but it didn’t reduce in the slightest the horniness I felt.
To me, trying to figure out how to get women to have sex with me felt like dying of thirst on a desert island covered in land mines. In my constantly precarious mental and social situations, I was always terrified of trying anything because I feared that doing the wrong thing would lose me the few friends (ie, acquaintances who tolerated me) that I had. And I feared that letting on to anyone that I had any sexual interest in anyone ever - that I had any sexual urge at all - would lead to everyone I knew immediately abandoning me. And this, I was quite sure,would result in my own death via suicide. This was the case to the point that, one time, my friends asked me if I was gay, probably assuming I was closeted. They were right. I was closeted. I just wasn’t gay.
So since I couldn’t talk to anyone in real life about my problem, I turned to the internet. I ended up in /r/seduction and… was immediately grossed out. It was weird and manipulative and unnatural and and just generally unappealing to me as someone who was committed to treating other people with basic human dignity. So instead I turned to the normal/liberal/leftist side of the internet, which was… unhelpful to say the least.
Saying that it is voluntary assumes that the steps needed are straightforward and obvious. But you might as well say that primitive tribes were voluntarily living without electricity for 200,000 years. After all, you just have to spin a magnet! Just put the work in! What’s wrong with them?
The bit you’ve missed off your strange list is being someone a woman would want to be around. Incel fits perfectly because they think they should just get women with no effort whatsoever.
I notice a severe lack of ‘working on self and mental health’ amongst other really important things that were missed in that incredibly short list. Which is the central problem with an Incel. It’s a central problem with many things.
Also just finding someone isn’t an instant sign of successful in relationships. There are plenty of dysfunctional relationships that are evidence that a person might even be more healthier alone and working on self in order to set standards on finding better relationships than just be in such a relationship all just to avoid being labelled involuntary celibate.
Personally I always disliked the word Incel as a stand-in for antisocial personality disorder. Cuz really that is what it is. Sex or no sex. They have the same attitude even if they were getting some. They just complain about the lack of sex (or have poor view about women in general) cuz that’s the only symptom they usually notice and come up against that might be hinting there is a deeper problem with themselves.
Raising kids these days must be a real minefield with all this toxic culture being so accessible.
Fundamentalist religion is at the top of the toxic culture, and it has been around since before the incel term.
Anyone offering easy answers to complex questions should be suspect. And that does largely incriminate all religious groups around the world. They often espouse seemingly decent and benign ideologies. But unfortunately the mindset that latches on to those things, idealogues; are the danger. Even if the ideology themselves aren’t necessarily.
They often espouse seemingly decent and benign ideologies.
Sometimes they are so conditioned that they don’t even think of their bigotry as bigotry.
I think organized religion fills their heads with problematic ideas about gender roles.
Sooooo… when are we gonna admit that men’s mental health is unfortunaly heavily tied to their career prospects?
No, not yet?
Okay I’ll keep waiting.
sigh
…
It’s capitalism.
Men’s well being wouldn’t be tied to career prospects if it weren’t for the rat race we are all brainwashed into since birth that is capitalism.
You have worth as a human beyond your capacity to produce profit.
Yeah and the reason young men are finding it hard to have real life friends and end up on uncle forums is because we lost most of our “third spaces” thanks to them not making money and shutting down or being underfunded or closed if they were publicly owned.
Ontop of this the constant algorithms that push specific topics to people over and over due to it keeping them on the platform and therefore generates income.
It does feel like 75% of this problem could be fixed by stopping corporate greed and fixing our local communities as whole.
we lost most of our “third spaces” thanks to them not making money and shutting down or being underfunded or closed if they were publicly owned.
And also shut down by female supremacist activists.
A gym started up last decade in my town, as a men’s only gym. A place for guys to come and exercise without distraction.
It got sued within the year by a woman who tried to join. It went to court. Company ran out of money before the court case closed, went bankrupt and had to close.
The case proceeded to completion, the woman won, and all the women’s groups in the area crowed about their phyrric “victory” over misogyny.
There are three women’s-only gyms in town, six in the greater geographical region. None of these have ever had men demanding to become members, because those men would be nailed to the wall for being misogynists.
This happens eventually to all “men’s spaces” that exist long enough: they are forced to no longer be “men’s spaces”, because being a “man’s space” is misogynistic.
Women’s spaces? Totally fine. Not misandric in the least.
See how “equality” works?
Edit:
Pick any third space where women’s only spaces exist, and you will also find men’s-only spaces that were sued either into nonexistence or into opening their doors for women, which caused it to no longer be a “men’s space”. From boxing clubs to smoking clubs to the f**king Boy Scouts of America, men’s spaces everywhere are being eliminated in the drive to “combat misogyny”.
Meanwhile, the president of the Girl Scouts privately admitted (can’t recall exactly when, but it was either during or shortly after the Boy Scout’s trial) that she would rather shut down the entire org than allow a single boy to join. And she was lauded for that position.
“Rules for thee, but not for me.”
That isn’t “equality” in the least. That’s blatant gender bigotry. And that is what the “black pill” is built upon - actual real-world evidence.
You want the black pill to stop existing? QUIT SHOVELLING THEM COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF AMMUNITION, FFS.
Seems like a huge part of the problem is equating “self-worth” to “getting laid”.
Putting your dick in a woman doesn’t make you any more of a man / successful / worth more than anyone else.
Societal expectations need to be rejected. Oh, success is measured by your ability to get married, have a house, and raise your 2.5 children? For a vast majority, NONE OF THAT IS CURRENTLY SUSTAINABLE AND/OR OBTAINABLE. So why bother? Right?
I get it. It ain’t right, but I get it.
Yeah i have sad it before. Many young men belive that to be a good person they must me the manlyest man to have manned in the history of manhood. Anything else and they a moral failure.
And you believe that men are fuck machines, fuck beasts, that to be a man is to fuck. Well thrn a man that is not having sex is failure of a man.
Changing their. Minda is not just a changing some view it is changing their whole world view. It is the sane as convincing the pope to convert to Buddhism. It is way more then facts or some conversations ot converting a whole generation.
The prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) truthfully described the problem of inceldom:
“There are incels who were born that way, and there are incels who have been made incels by others—and there are those who choose to live like incels for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” Jesus identifies three types of “incels” here: natural incels (“born that way”), forced incels (“made incels by others”), and voluntary incels (“those who choose”).
Truecels, or the truest incels, are born with facial deformities such as lopsided faces or eyes that are too close together or too far apart… but most incels today have been created by man. It’s just not possible to buy a house and have 3-4 children anymore, and most women aren’t interested in it. If you’re a man in your 20s and you’ve got good income from a job, and cheap rent somehow, then you’ll likely have to wait until your mid-thirties until all the women have got the careers and promotions that they want. Then they will “settle”.
It’s almost as if our society is designed to create more incels. Personally I am a volcel. Society is a cruel joke and I’d rather become an orthodox priest, than work 12 hours a day in a busy warehouse, driving forklifts or carrying timber. Sometimes I question why I bother contributing to society.
Incels are a product of the Internet. Before that, we had winners and losers, and most losers weren’t that way on purpose.
I’m ugly af and I’ve had plenty of action over the years. Looks aren’t everything, bro. Be funny. Have interesting hobbies. Be deserving of respect through your own actions. Can’t really stress that last one enough.
It’s pretty easy to give up trying to build a future for yourself when it has been made abundantly clear to you that your future is not part of the grand plan.
Incel is just a pejorative that makes them get even more blackpilled. Use “emotionally unstable” or even “constitutionally weak”, because if they knew the real issue, they’d be more predisposed to actually fixing themselves so that they can also get laid.
Also, legalize sex work. Just get them laid. Watch the alt right and fascism crash harder than a drunk driver speeding at night.
Sex ain’t gonna fix 'em.
but it will make them less celabete
Pretty fucked up to think that sex workers should be subjected to a bunch of misogynists.
There’s a disconnect with capitalism and culture. Getting laid isn’t going to fix that.
Holy fuck I’m glad I’m not growing up now. This whole “incel” thong just makes me so fucking mad.
We have a subset of adolescent males who are harassed amd bullied and depressed and self-destructive, and how does the rest of socirty respond? The best they can manage is to gridgingly say things like:
You can both condemn their ideology and find it abhorrent and also remember that we need to have empathy for these people."
Many people—women especially—might find that a tall order, and Beckett-Herbert understands that reluctance. “I do understand people’s hesitancy to empathize with them, because it feels like you’re giving credence to their rhetoric,” she said. “But at the end of the day, they are human, and a lot of them are really struggling, marginalized people coming from pretty sad backgrounds. When you peruse their online world, it’s the most horrifying, angering misogyny right next to some of the saddest mental health, suicidal, low self-esteem stuff you’ve ever seen. I think humanizing them and having empathy is going to be foundational to any intervention efforts to reintegrate them. But it’s something I wrestle with a lot.”
How nice. You think maybe you should try to empathize with them and remember that they are human beings, but gee… that’s a tall order. You’re not sure if you can actually do it.
And then you have the gall to wonder why they exist - how they got to be that way. You should, if you genuinely want to do something about them, be offering them help to deal with their struggles before they even get to that stage. But no - you won’t do that. Fuck them - they’re boys, so they’re on their own.
We can care about the well-being of women and girls and also acknowledge that young men are struggling, too. Those don’t have to be at odds."
So that’s the best you can do? You “care about” girls and women but can only maybe manage to “acknowleedge” boys and men? And you still don’t understand the appeal of the manosphere?
"There is evidence that men who are short or not conventionally attractive are discriminated against in hiring.
So right there - there is evidence that one of the things the incel community complains about is in fact true.
But do you even acknowledge it? Nope.
“But there’s also a lot of evidence suggesting that this actually affects women more. Women who are overweight face a greater bias against them in hiring than men do, for example.”
You just breeze right past it and dismiss their feelings entirely, because girls and women have it worse.
Seriously, you still don’t get how we ended up with a generation of boys who think the world shits on them and girls and women get preferential treatment? Even after you just shat on them and gave girls preferential treatment?
Here’s va fucking news flash, since so many people are apparentlybtoo fucking stupid to figure itvout - if you all actually cared about thecstruggles boys are going through and listened to them and took them seriously and tried to help them, they wouldn’t have to turn to the manosphere to find someone who gives a shit about them.
It’s not complicated, so you have no fucking excuse. Stop belittling boys and treating their problems as if they somehow don’t count.
If the best you can manage is to maybe “acknoeledge” boys’ problems, even as you “care about” girls’, and you can’t even mention a problem boys experience without immediately shifting your focus away from them and to girls, then the boys aren’t the real problem - you are.
They hate women, want to rape them and remove their rights, so women, utterly predictably, hate them back. It’s not complicated. Try telling black people to empathise with the poor little white supremacists more and see how far you get.
Incels aren’t new btw. I tried to read 1984 recently and had to stop because the main character is an incel.
tried to read 1984 recently and had to stop because the main character is an incel.
Back the truck up, buddy.
