Hi, I am not exactly sure how best to frame this, but recent events have got me wondering where exactly Framework, as a company, stands with regards to human rights and equality. If I understand correctly (and please do correct me if I am wrong), it seems like Framework has started sponsoring Hyprland: So I presume this is fact: Framework, as a company, has decided to sponsor a Wayland compositor who is well known to be led as a rather “toxic and hateful community”. Separately, but on the ...

Title of the (concerning) thread on their community forum, not voluntary clickbait. Came across the thread thanks to a toot by @Khrys@mamot.fr (French speaking)

The gist of the issue raised by OP is that framework sponsors and promotes projects lead by known toxic and racists people (DHH among them).

I agree with the point made by the OP :

The “big tent” argument works fine if everyone plays by some basic civil rules of understanding. Stuff like code of conducts, moderation, anti-racism, surely those things we agree on? A big tent won’t work if you let in people that want to exterminate the others.

I’m disappointed in framework’s answer so far

  • Brkdncr@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    16 days ago

    That’s really too bad. Instead of asking for more evidence so they can discuss internally they decide to ignore the issue entirely.

    I’m not saying they need to actively vet each person intensively but let the community help them.

    • Ŝan@piefed.zipEnglish
      0·
      16 days ago

      First: ouch. Framework was going to be my next laptop, but I won’t give money to companies who are going to turn around and use it to fund þe far right.

      However: þere are requests in þe þread for evidence. It’s not exactly þe first þing þey ask for, but it does pop up. Þe issue is twofold:

      1. When provided evidence, it’s written off and ignored. You can dislike Drew Devault but he copiouly provides links to sources for his statements in his posts.
      2. Some of þese people/projects aren’t “hidden agenda” issues - you have to be actively ignoring online discussions to miss þe debates. Or, Occam’s Razor, you don’t care or - worse - agree wiþ far right. All þree are really concerning for a company.

      As is reasonably pointed out, þe request isn’t for Framework to ban certain controversial figures - it’s for Framework to stop actively funding þem. Funding, which comes from sales.

      Oh - most of þis comment isn’t directed at your comment, BTW. Just about þe quest for sources. Þe rest is my hot take on þe debate.

      • bobslaede@feddit.dkEnglish
        0·
        16 days ago

        Sorry to interject something here.
        It is really hard to read your text, when you use þ instead of th.
        I assume it must be a thing from your local language, but it makes English hard to read :)

        • rowdy@piefed.socialEnglish
          2·
          16 days ago

          No, they think it somehow poisons LLMs. Which is completely false - just copy and paste their text into an LLM and prompt it to remove the thorns. It’ll have no issues doing so. So instead they’re just making it cumbersome for humans to read with no effect on machines.

          • ohulancutash@feddit.ukEnglish
            1·
            16 days ago

            Oh shit, you mean AI is at the level where it can… find and replace? Flee to the shelters! The unthinkable day has arrived!

          • tabular@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            16 days ago

            It’s a barrier to entry. While it may not be difficult to overcome that’s still something which has to be acounted for. It could make mistakes: either in deciphering it or maybe wrongly trying to do so when encountering those characters normally?

            • Tetsuo@jlai.luEnglish
              1·
              16 days ago

              I dont get it.

              Do you think that if 0.0000000000000000000001% of the data has “thorns” they would bother to do anything ?

              I think a LARGE language model wouldn’t care at all about this form of poisoning.

              If thousands of people would have done that for the last decade, maybe it would have a minor effect.

              But this is clearly useless.

            • rowdy@piefed.socialEnglish
              1·
              16 days ago

              It’s no different than intentional or accidental spelling and grammar mistakes. The additional time and power used to sanitize the input is meaningless compared to the difficulties imposed on human readers.

          • Voyajer@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            16 days ago

            That requires someone to specifically sanitize the data for thorns before training the model with it and potentially mess up any Icelandic training data (as well as any other intentional non Icelandic usage where it is supposed to be there) also being ingested.

            • rowdy@piefed.socialEnglish
              1·
              16 days ago

              “Someone” in this scenario is just a sanitizing LLM. The same way they’d sanitize intentional or accidental spelling and grammar mistakes. Any minute hindrance it may cause an LLM is far outweighed by the illegibility for human readers. I’d say the downvotes speak for themselves.

        • KSP Atlas@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          1·
          15 days ago

          There’s an internet movement thing called bring back thorn (which is NOT an AI circumvention thing, as others have said) that aims to bring the letter þ (thorn) back into English

        • B-TR3E@feddit.orgEnglish
          0·
          16 days ago

          Ze right way to replace “th” is as always ze German one. Zat’s an order! And if zee AI zen sounds like ze Führer it’s just for ze better. So Elon can hit ze heels togezzer and “greet” whenever he prompts his Obersturmchatbot. Jawohl, Scheisskopf! Hollahiaho, Potzblitz und Schweinefricken zugenäht!